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Message ID: 8171
Date: 2009-05-26

Author:Peter Dale

Subject:Re: Are Therapists Potentially Dangerous?

I am not as optimistic as Dr Fontes that the bad practices of the 1980s and 1990s do not still exist in some 'therapeutic' and child welfare professional cultures. Some therapists and social workers remain susceptible to unthinking adherence to certain theoretical models, applying these without knowledge of their limitations, potential for harm (or the vicarious emotional benefits they derive from such practice). Almost paranoid beliefs about the prevalence of child abuse, 'Courage to Heal' type therapeutic belief systems, and the misapplication of attachment theory continue to do great harm to many children and families in the UK. Peter Dale Dr Peter Dale & Associates Ltd Independent social work, counselling, training, research, expert witness services Phone: (01424) 424504 Mobile: 07903 523 877 Email: info@peterdale.co.uk Website: www.peterdale.co.uk On 25 May 2009, at 17:38, Toni Cavanagh Johnson wrote: I echo Lisa's sentiments also. There is nothing to sensationalize about the things we used to do. Yet, this is an important training issue. My thoughts run more to personal issues of therapists getting in the way of therapy, e.g. philosophies, theories, money, politics, our feelings, our needs, our desires, our longings, our biases, "un" common sense, poor training in basic therapeutic interventions, etc. Toni Cavanagh Johnson, Ph.D. 1101 Fremont Avenue, Suite 101 South Pasadena, California 91030 USA Tel: 626-799-4522 FAX: 818-790-0139 toni@tcavjohn.com www.tcavjohn.com On May 23, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Faller, Kathleen wrote: Toni, I echo Lisa's sentiments. I would add that there is still much to be learned about evidence-based treatment and case-management in child sexual abuse and children with sexual behavior problems (I am assuming you are addressing practice in your area of expertise). Many of our colleagues have to treat complex cases where there is no evidence to guide them, or the evidence only addresses a small part of the problems that need to be addressed. Kathleen Coulborn Faller, Ph.D., A.C.S.W., L.M.S.W. Marion Elizabeth Blue Professor of Children and Families Director of the Family Assessment Clinic School of Social Work The University of Michigan 1080 S. University Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1106 734 998 9700 kcfaller@umich.edu The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipients. This communication is protected by federal law, both the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) and 18 United States Code Section 2511. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by phone (collect, if long distance) and destroy the message as you would confidential information ________________________________________ From: bounce-3951502-6833631@list.cornell.edu [bounce-3951502-6833631@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of lfontes@rcn.com [lfontes@rcn.com] Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 8:16 AM To: Child Maltreatment Researchers Subject: Re: Are Therapists Potentially Dangerous? This feels like a really delicate topic to me, and it would be CRUCIAL to distinguish between practices performed in the 80's and early 90's when we didn't really know what we were doing in therapies for abused children & adults, and what is being done now. I could see an appeal to sensationalize "bad therapy" based on practices which--one would hope--are no longer being used. TOni, I certainly hope you'll provide this context in terms of date & knowledge. I'm sure you will. Respectfully, Lisa Fontes, Ph.D. ---- Original message ---- Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:44:20 +0100 From: Peter Dale Subject: Re: Are Therapists Potentially Dangerous? To: "Child Maltreatment Researchers" Toni, Your might like to dig out my 1999 book: Dale, P. (1999) Adults Abused as Children. Experiences of Counselling and Psychotherapy. London: Sage publications This reported my PhD research project in this area, and includes some graphic examples of very damaging 'therapeutic' practice with adults who were abused as children. Regards, Peter Dr Peter Dale & Associates Ltd Independent social work, counselling, training, research, expert witness services Phone: (01424) 424504 Mobile: 07903 523 877 Email: info@peterdale.co.uk Website: www.peterdale.co.uk On 22 May 2009, at 01:47, Toni Cavanagh Johnson wrote: I am preparing a talk and an article on therapists. My thesis is: Are therapists potentially dangerous? I have examples from my own mistakes and those I have seen with others. Do any of you have concerns about the efficacy of therapists? Are you willing to share with me the concerns? If I were to use the example in a lecture or paper, it would be anonymous. Toni Toni Cavanagh Johnson, Ph.D. 1101 Fremont Avenue, Suite 101 South Pasadena, California 91030 USA Tel: 626-799-4522 FAX: 818-790-0139 toni@tcavjohn.com www.tcavjohn.com

I am not as optimistic as Dr Fontes that the bad practices of the 1980s and 1990s do not still exist in some 'therapeutic' and child welfare professional cultures. Some therapists and social workers remain susceptible to unthinking adherence to certain theoretical models, applying these without knowledge of their limitations, potential for harm (or the vicarious emotional benefits they derive from such practice). Almost paranoid beliefs about the prevalence of child abuse, 'Courage to Heal' type therapeutic belief systems, and the misapplication of attachment theory continue to do great harm to many children and families in the UK. Peter Dale Dr Peter Dale & Associates Ltd Independent social work, counselling, training, research, expert witness services Phone: (01424) 424504 Mobile: 07903 523 877 Email: infopeterdale.co.uk Website: www.peterdale.co.uk On 25 May 2009, at 17:38, Toni Cavanagh Johnson wrote: I echo Lisa's sentiments also. There is nothing to sensationalize about the things we used to do. Yet, this is an important training issue. My thoughts run more to personal issues of therapists getting in the way of therapy, e.g. philosophies, theories, money, politics, our feelings, our needs, our desires, our longings, our biases, "un" common sense, poor training in basic therapeutic interventions, etc. Toni Cavanagh Johnson, Ph.D. 1101 Fremont Avenue, Suite 101 South Pasadena, California 91030 USA Tel: 626-799-4522 FAX: 818-790-0139 tonitcavjohn.com www.tcavjohn.com On May 23, 2009, at 7:56 PM, Faller, Kathleen wrote: Toni, I echo Lisa's sentiments. I would add that there is still much to be learned about evidence-based treatment and case-management in child sexual abuse and children with sexual behavior problems (I am assuming you are addressing practice in your area of expertise). Many of our colleagues have to treat complex cases where there is no evidence to guide them, or the evidence only addresses a small part of the problems that need to be addressed. Kathleen Coulborn Faller, Ph.D., A.C.S.W., L.M.S.W. Marion Elizabeth Blue Professor of Children and Families Director of the Family Assessment Clinic School of Social Work The University of Michigan 1080 S. University Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1106 734 998 9700 kcfallerumich.edu The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and is intended only for the use of the named recipients. This communication is protected by federal law, both the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) and 18 United States Code Section 2511. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by phone (collect, if long distance) and destroy the message as you would confidential information ________________________________________ From: bounce-3951502-6833631list.cornell.edu [bounce-3951502-6833631list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of lfontesrcn.com [lfontesrcn.com] Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 8:16 AM To: Child Maltreatment Researchers Subject: Re: Are Therapists Potentially Dangerous? This feels like a really delicate topic to me, and it would be CRUCIAL to distinguish between practices performed in the 80's and early 90's when we didn't really know what we were doing in therapies for abused children & adults, and what is being done now. I could see an appeal to sensationalize "bad therapy" based on practices which--one would hope--are no longer being used. TOni, I certainly hope you'll provide this context in terms of date & knowledge. I'm sure you will. Respectfully, Lisa Fontes, Ph.D. ---- Original message ---- Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:44:20 +0100 From: Peter Dale Subject: Re: Are Therapists Potentially Dangerous? To: "Child Maltreatment Researchers" Toni, Your might like to dig out my 1999 book: Dale, P. (1999) Adults Abused as Children. Experiences of Counselling and Psychotherapy. London: Sage publications This reported my PhD research project in this area, and includes some graphic examples of very damaging 'therapeutic' practice with adults who were abused as children. Regards, Peter Dr Peter Dale & Associates Ltd Independent social work, counselling, training, research, expert witness services Phone: (01424) 424504 Mobile: 07903 523 877 Email: infopeterdale.co.uk Website: www.peterdale.co.uk On 22 May 2009, at 01:47, Toni Cavanagh Johnson wrote: I am preparing a talk and an article on therapists. My thesis is: Are therapists potentially dangerous? I have examples from my own mistakes and those I have seen with others. Do any of you have concerns about the efficacy of therapists? Are you willing to share with me the concerns? If I were to use the example in a lecture or paper, it would be anonymous. Toni Toni Cavanagh Johnson, Ph.D. 1101 Fremont Avenue, Suite 101 South Pasadena, California 91030 USA Tel: 626-799-4522 FAX: 818-790-0139 tonitcavjohn.com www.tcavjohn.com