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Re: foster care and childbirth
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<DIV>You say much I agree with. I am not interested in any grand law of
early child-bearing among foster children or former foster children. I am
interested in dealing with the here and now: the children we deal with in
California, and the cultural groups they come from.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The fact is that the age of first marriage for young men in the U.S. is now
up to 27, and for women, 25 to 26, the highest it has been since the Great
Depression. There are significant economic reasons for this change,
which adversely affects the ability of young people to set up an
independent economic unit. in order to marry, the northwestern European cultural
norm Wally Seccombe describes eloquently.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This is not to say that they do not have sex before then, but most of that
sexual activity is without issue. Therefore, unprotected sex WITH issue is
not the rule for young people. Folks who do that are doing something
outside the broader U.S. norm. There are likely to be reasons for that,
and U.S. research indicates that many of these reasons include
purposeful pregnancies.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since I work for a social services agency with actual clients, and do not
engage exclusively in academic "research" we have the opportunity to gather
qualitative information from our clients, who often remain in our community past
the time we have them in the court's charge. Nothing I have said
contradicts our experience in that area, either. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The teen pregnancy "issue" in my county is almost exclusively
amongHispanic children, who are also the largest group in foster care, although
Hispanic children in general are underrepresented in foster care, we assume,
because of the robustly healthy effects of their extended family supports.
For non-Hispanic teens who become pregnant, the father is always Hispanic.
Although other teens in other ethnic groups engage in sexual activity also, the
males are more likely to insist on protection from pregnancy (and a possible
paternity levy), and the females are more likely also to protect
themselves. The "machismo" ethic among many young Hispanic males
disparages the use of any form of birth control by men, and discourages young
men from encouraging young women to use preventive means, too. The
implicit goal of sexual activity is , therefore, procreation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This information has been discussed in a culturally respectful manner
before largely Hispanic forums in our community, without objection or
disagreement by Hispanic community leaders. My former job was as civil
rights director for my county, by the way, and I have been a member of many of
our ethnic advocacy groups, both here and elsewhere in the United States.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My thoughts come from a California perspective. Nobody said that the
motivation to give birth has ANYTHING to do with exploiting anybody's social
welfare system - - the thought never occurred to me in writing my earlier
message, although I know some conservative politicians have believed it to be
so. Our current welfare payments, by the way, are pegged at 62% of the
poverty level and dropping. Not a good standard of living to aim for under
any circumstances.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think it is fair to assume that even self-injurious behavior has some
motivation other than suicidallity. My context is that most human behavior
is purposeful, even if not within conscious awareness at all times.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>My work with developmentally disabled young people confirms that
view.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Freya Schultz</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>**Notice of Privacy**<BR>This information is private and confidential and
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Freya Schultz<BR>Staff Analyst<BR>Santa Barbara County Social
Services<BR>234 Camino del Remedio<BR>Santa Barbara, CA 93110<BR>Voice (805)
681-4626 <BR>FAX (805) 681-4403<BR><<A
href="mailto:freya@co.santa-barbara.ca.us";>freya@co.santa-barbara.ca.us</A>></DIV>
<DIV><BR>>>> jadynne@tpg.com.au 08/26/03 05:23PM >>><BR>I
similarly find this debate extremely interesting - however there are some
difficulties in comparing people's experiences across jurisdictions and
internationally. </DIV>
<P>For starters, people enter care for different reasons in different places. A
person's reason for entering into care, relating predominately to their early
life experience can be instrumental in determining subsequent life experiences,
attachments and social relationships. The proportions of people entering care
vary substantially within countries, and also internationally. Within Australia
different states have varying rates of admission for sexual, physical and
emotional abuse, neglect and carer incarceration - and I understand a similar
situation applies in the US. Furthermore, their are marked international
contrasts. For example, many more young people enter care in the US for drug
related reasons, particularly prenatal harm than occurs in Australia. >From
examining the statistics, it would also appear that a greater proportion of the
population in the US ends up in care than in other countries, where it seems
generic social services help buffer and support parents at risk.
<P>To get back to the topic of conversation, there are many reasons why people
have children, and many reasons why young people in care have children. Whilst I
accept that there may be a myriad of unconscious psychological motivations that
contribute to a young person wanting a child, I tend to have found that people
are largely unaware of these. In my experiences (which certainly aren't
necessarily appropriate to generalise worldwide) young people who are or have
been in care have children at young ages because they extensively engage in self
harm and risk taking activities. We know that young people in care are more
likely to use outpatient mental health services, we know that young people in
care are less likely to finish school, and are less likely to achieve grades
that are of a comparable standard to their peers. We know young people in care
have greater rates of hospital admissions than other young people, have a
greater rate of homelessness, and at least anecdotally, have a greater incidence
of self harm and substance abuse.
<P>Ultimately, these patterns are not at all dissimilar from the experiences of
other young people at risk - with the exception that in the case of young people
in care the state has been mandated to be their guardian, and to ensure their
ongoing well-being.
<P>From my perspective early pregnancy, whilst in care or just after leaving
care is a product of engaging in self-harming and at-risk activities. Substance
abuse coupled with unprotected intercourse or teen prostitution or its
equivalent come to mind. I'm not arguing that some of the grander psychological
motivations do not come in to play at some stage, but I would argue that this
occurs much later in a young person's life - when they're in their mid twenties
as opposed to mid teens.
<P>I take strong issue with the second notion that young people in care, or who
have left care engage in intercourse or have children to achieve the aim of:
<P>"wanting somebody else to take care of you and assuming this will happen if
you give birth to a child with one or more men, regardless of whether a stable
relationship with a young man with the MEANS to support a young family exists"
<P>Suggesting that young people in care, or anyone for that matter gives birth
to exploit an already grossly under-funded, under-resourced and distressed
social welfare system in many Western countries I feel is too marked a stretch
in logic.
<P>Anyway, these are my thoughts, mostly coming from an Australian perspective -
perhaps care is so markedly different in the US that similar situations don't
apply.
<P>Cheers.
<P>Jadynne Harvey
<P>"Dixon, Donna M." wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> <SPAN class=220395815-26082003><FONT
face="Microsoft Sans Serif">I find your assumptions interesting. I haven't
heard the reasons for high teen pregnancy rates among girls in the foster care
system articulated in this way. Do you have any publications that expound on
your ideas and/or any suggestions for how to question/measure if these are
present prior to pregnancy??</FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=220395815-26082003></SPAN><SPAN class=220395815-26082003>
<P><FONT face="Palace Script MT"><FONT size=+1>Donna Dixon, RN,
MS</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>Center on Adolescent Sexuality,
Pregnancy and Parenting</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>Department of Human
Development & Family Studies</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>University of
Missouri</FONT> <BR><SPAN class=220395815-26082003><FONT face=Arial>314</SPAN>
Gentry Hall</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>Columbia, MO 65211</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial>(573) 882-6687</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial>(573) 884=4878</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><A
href="mailto:dixondm@missouri.edu";>dixondm@missouri.edu</A></FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000000><A
href="http://outreach.missouri.edu/hdfs/mvrm.htm";
target=_blank>http://outreach.missouri.edu/hdfs/mvrm.htm</A></FONT></FONT>
<BR></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original
Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Freya Schultz [<A
href="mailto:freya@co.santa-barbara.ca.us";>mailto:freya@co.santa-barbara.ca.us</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Tahoma><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 25, 2003 2:13 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Tahoma><B>To:</B> Child Maltreatment Researchers</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Tahoma><B>Subject:</B> Re: foster care and childbirth</FONT>
<BR> </DIV>I wonder if people have any research with outcomes
differentiated by the degree of permancy and the length of permant placement
(age at last permanent placement). The issue I would be interested in
seeing would be to distinguish the effects of the PLACEMENT situation the
child experienced from the effects of the birth family situation. In
either event, we can assume, I think, that early child-bearing is associated
with: 1) a desire to CREATE a family to love and be loved when
one has had less lifelong committed relationship experience as a child
(<U>related to narcissistic injury and emotional developmental delays which
have not been adequately remediated</U>), and /or 2) <U>a failure to
prepare adequately</U> (among girls in particular) <U>for lifelong
self-sufficiency</U> (school attainment/vocational preparation)
related to inferior educational outcomes often experienced by children
passing through the foster care system. In other words, a form of
wanting somebody else to take care of you and assuming this will happen if
you give birth to a child with one or more men, regardless of whether a
stable relationship with a young man with the MEANS to support a young
family exists. Just assuming greater and earlier permanent placement
would remediate things BY THEMSELVES, I think, assumes too much effect for
this one parameter. In much of the U.S., it takes TWO working parents
to support even two children adequately, or a single woman with at least a
college education and work experience and two or fewer children to
support. Children without adequate economic preparation for adulthood
will not just automatically KNOW this and if not prepared explicitly for
this life challenge, will not meet it adequately, or will refuse to meet it
(it counters their immediate family's values). This is particularly
true for subcultural groups who come from an extended family model, in which
setting up an independent economic household unit BEFORE commencing
child-bearing is not an explicit ( or implicit) cultural goal - it may even
be considered dangerous for extended family cohesion. Hence, the
failure to do so is higher in some groups than others, for "cultural"
reasons, independent of whether a child has EVER been in foster
care. The Canadian sociologist Wally Seccombe (in A Millenium of
Family Change) makes this case very convincingly for Western European
societies in history, and by extension, for other family-type preference
groups. Freya Kaniuokalani Schultz (demographer/anthropologist)and
person of mixed race (ethnic Hawaiian, etc. - for whom these conflicts
remain a salient cultural issue)
<P>>>> jadynne@tpg.com.au 08/24/03 04:21PM >>> <BR>Hello
Mark,
<P>It sounds like you're doing some excellent and interesting work.
Similarly, I <BR>presently am examining various life outcomes for people
18-30 who have left the <BR>care system within Australia. Loosely speaking,
the majority of people who have <BR>had children have done so early,
oftentimes whilst still in care, or just after <BR>leaving care, with the
age range between about 15 and 23. Certainly there are <BR>some people in my
participant group who have had children at older ages, but the <BR>majority
if they have had children have had them quite young.
<P>I'm finishing off sampling at the moment, but can send you through some
findings <BR>when I get that together.
<P>Best of luck with your research.
<P>Jadynne Harvey
<P>"Mark F. Schmitz" wrote:
<P>> Hello all, <BR>> <BR>> I'm working on some analyses that look
at various adulthood outcomes of <BR>> foster care. Right now, I'm
looking at the rate of childbirth for young <BR>> adults (21-30 years
old) who were raised in the foster care system at some <BR>> time in
their childhood or adolescence. Does anybody know of any research <BR>>
that has examined this issue? <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Mark
Schmitz <BR>> <BR>> *********************************************
<BR>> Mark F. Schmitz, Ph.D. <BR>> School of Social Work <BR>>
Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey <BR>> 536 George Street
<BR>> New Brunswick, NJ 08901 <BR>> <BR>> email: <U><A
href="mailto:mschmitz@rci.rutgers.edu";>mschmitz@rci.rutgers.edu</A></U>
<BR><U>> phone: (732) 932-3550</U> <BR><U>> fax: (732) 932-8181</U>
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<P><U>--</U> <BR><U>Jadynne Harvey</U> <BR><U><A href="http://Ph.D.";>Ph.D.
</A>Candidate</U> <BR><U>Department of Psychology</U> <BR><U>ADELAIDE
UNIVERSITY SA 5005</U> <BR><U>AUSTRALIA</U> <BR>
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