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RE: PRETEXT conversations as an investigative tool
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>For the
aussies interested, pretext conversations have been used for some time in
Qld.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The definitive case is The
Queen v Burt, Supreme Court of Qld Court of Appeal where the court countenanced
the reception of evidence holding that the admissions made were not
involuntary.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It is also required
that the party covertly taping must be party to the conversation.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It is also being used in NSW in white
collar/fraud matters, where although warrants are required for a third party
intercept and recording is illegal, there are exceptions in the relevant
legislation including "in the public interest", where a party to a
conversation records the conversation.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</span>This is distinct to a third party conducting the taping i.e. the
conversing party also has to have control of the 'machinery' used.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It is not widely 'advertised', presumably
to avoid the perpetrators becoming aware of the technique.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What I am interested
in is any research which might exist supporting the 2 attractive premises that
guilty pleas are increased, and that victims are empowered by helping out in
the investigation and confronting their abuser.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Lynda
Summers<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Lecturer,
Investigations<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Charles
Sturt University<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Australia <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
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style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color="#663366"
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ian Randall<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, August 18, 2001
4:37 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Child Maltreatment Researchers<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: PRETEXT conversations
as an investigative tool</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mr Price,</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>"Note, the original poster was
from Australia, with considerably fewer</span></font> <br>
<font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>rights than the US."</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While not necessarily wanting to
wade into the discussion, what knowledge do you have of the state of rights in
Australia. Why do you assume that Australia has "considerably fewer
rights than the US"? As far as I am aware the recording of a
telephone conversation without the knowlege and permission of both (or all)
parties is illegal in all states of Australia.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>That is of course with the exception
of Telephone Intercepts (or line tapping) which is conducted by Police under
it's own legislation as it is in the US.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While I have never heard of this
technique being used in investigation of child abuse in Australia or at least
by my State Department, I do think that it may warrant some consideration.</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>** I would have liked to think that
the professionals on this list would not suffer that unfortunate American
tendency to believe that the US is the centre of the world and the pinacle of
all that is righteous.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Please remember: Central
America is not Kansas.......</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ian Randall</span></font> <br>
<font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>Child Protection Caseworker</span></font>
<br>
<font face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>Sydney, Australia.</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>John M Price PhD wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:36.0pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Fri, 17 Aug 2001
Jschiff139@aol.com wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> <<Some states
include the tag, "one party knowledge", but I am not sure how <br>
> that <br>
> works.>> <br>
> <br>
> My guess is the one party rule is probably the case in most states.
The way <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'd not go any where near
that far. Recall the old federal law of beeps <br>
every 15 seconds? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Note, the original poster
was from Australia, with considerably fewer <br>
rights than the US. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> it works is that any
party to a conversation may record the conversation <br>
> without disclosing that fact. It's the third party interception of <br>
> communications that is objectionable. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>That is an entirely
different animal, let alone a different colored horse. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>> However, this
doesn't necessarily make it ethical for professionals (lawyers <br>
> for instance) to secretly record their conversations. But that's a
horse of <br>
> a different flavor. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Indeed. I'd think
this 'PRETEXT' stuff tainted evidence, myself, but I am <br>
not a lawyer. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-right:36.0pt;margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-- <br>
John M. Price,
PhD
jmprice@calweb.com <br>
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling!
| PGP Key on request or FTP! <br>
Comoderator:
sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated
Atheist# 683<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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From: "Lynda Summers" <lsummers@csu.edu.au>
To: Child Maltreatment Researchers <CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: PRETEXT conversations as an investigative tool
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:01:36 +1000
Message-ID: <NDBBLMCJLDBPAPCDDPNPAELLCHAA.lsummers@csu.edu.au>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Thanks Ron, I'm not certain I actually hold any particular view; certainly,
the anecdotal reports offer these points as justification.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The purpose of my post was to establish
if research exists which supports these views as valid or otherwise.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>It would appear from the responses that
there is a diverse range of opinions and research of the nature you suggest may
well be worthwhile.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Thanks for your input.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
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face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle20><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Lynda<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color="#663366"
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ron Kokish<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 22, 2001
1:11 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Child Maltreatment Researchers<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: PRETEXT conversations
as an investigative tool</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>>></span></font><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What I am interested in is
any research which might exist supporting the 2 attractive premises that guilty
pleas are increased, and that victims are empowered by helping out in the
investigation and confronting their abuser.<<<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>While
you may be interested in supporting a point of view you already hold, better
questions for a list dedicated to research would be:</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>1.
What is the effect of using pretext conversations on the number of guilty pleas
obtained?</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>2.
How does participating in pretext conversations effect alleged victims who do
so?</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=2 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>***************************************************************************<br>
Ron Kokish at Delson-Kokish Associates, P.O. Box 476, Trinidad, CA 95570<br>
Clinical and Forensic Evaluations,
Consultation & Training<br>
(707)677-3181-voice (707)677-0187-fax<br>
ron@delko.net-email www.northcoast.com/~dka<br>
***************************************************************************</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Lynda Summers<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 20, 2001 2:50
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Child Maltreatment Researchers<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: PRETEXT conversations
as an investigative tool</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt'><font size=3 color="#663366"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>.moderated
Atheist# 683<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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To: NDACAN@cornell.edu (Andres Arroyo)
From: "Lynda Walters" <lwalters@HESTIA.FCS.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Parenting Styles
I am very interested in the information you get on this. Would you
please summarize what you receive and post to the listserv. Thanks.
Lynda
>
> We are evaluating outcomes for children ages 6-14 whose caregivers are
> receiving a community-based supportive services intervention. These children
> are primarily African American, have been abused/neglected and are living
> with a relative other than biological parent(s). We will be looking at
> another group of children in the regular foster care system (e.g. not
> relative caregivers but foster parents). One of the mediating influences
> (e.g. non-intervention factor) we want to attempt to measure is the
> parenting style of the primary caregiver (e.g authoritative, permissive). We
> will not be able to do any observational ratings of these caregivers and are
> interested in proxy measures for use with a primarily African American kin
> group and also foster parents. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Please
> reply directly to dcohon@itsa.ucsf.edu
>
> Don
>
>
>
Lynda Henley Walters
Professor, Child & Family Development
Dawson Hall
The University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602
706-542-4859
FAX 706-542-4389