R: Ezzo and Growing Families International

["Oddone Virginio" <oddovir@xxxxxxxxx>]

A few remarks, about Harper's message.

First: I mentioned "rules" (about using violent physical discipline with
small children); the quoted passage is simply a suggestion put forward by a
theorist. It implies, among other things, that there were people who DID
NOT use violent or severe discipline toward their offspring or children in
general, and that there was ample disagreement on how best to treat basic
educational problems (Ari�s, Lloyd de Mause, etc. all agree that there have
been relevant voices AGAINST harsh discipline in the far past too. The
"Aveyron Child" case had enormous ideological relevance in its time).

Second. The quoted passage does not contain a precise indication about age,
and about what kind of pressure to use according to different ages. It
simply states that "children" must be disciplined from very early age, if
necessary also "by the rod". But "child" (as well as "Kind" in german) is
an ambiguous term, meaning both the offspring - i.d. "daughter/son" - and
the very young human being, the one we call in italian "bambino/bambina".

Third, the roots of the ideology of discipline are very, very ancient. See
Deuteron., 21, 18-21 (the difficult son is brought to the elders and then
is stoned), or paleo-babilonian statutes prescribing that the son who says
to his father or his mother "you are not my father" (or mother) will be
publishly punished and then thrown out of the city walls (quoted in F.
Mario Fales, "La Struttura Sociale", in S. Moscati et al. (eds), "L'Alba
della Civilt�. Societ�, economia e pensiero nel Vicino Oriente Antico",
vol. 1, Utet, Torino, 1976, pp. 182 - 183. Fales quotes also a contract of
the same period, in which the two parents are authorized to sell their
children if they will say those same words).

Fourth, at least in some areas (Italy, continental Europe), well until the
1940s there was little need to discpline violently the very little
children, because they were tightly wrapped (I think that the correct
english word for such practice is "to swaddle"), and could not do anything.

Fifth, and last for the time: an autoritarian society NEEDS a well balanced
discipline, which is the exact opposite of wanton ferocity. Using the rod
on very small chldren is against order and decency (in Italy fascism
enacted the first comprehensive legislation of social, physical and
psychological protection of the infancy and motherhood).

Virginio.


Virginio Oddone MD
V. Avogadro 6
10121 - Torino (Italy)
e-mail: oddovir@ipsnet.it


----------
> Da: HarperJimmyD@exchange.uams.edu
> A: Child Maltreatment Researchers  
<CHILD-MALTREATMENT-RESEARCH-L@cornell.edu>
> Oggetto: RE: Ezzo and Growing Families International
> Data: mercoled� 6 ottobre 1999 0.36
> 
> 	[Harper, Jimmy D]  Alice Miller addresses German childrearing
> practices early in "For Your On Good." As an example of typical
"poisonous
> 	pedagogy" she quotes a passage from "An Essay on the Education
> 	and Instruction of Children" written in 1748 by J.Sulzer. Sulzer
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	The Ezzo's seem to be standing on long, if misguided, tradition.
> 
> 	-Jim Harper